not arm the Ukrainian separatists, reports of the Russian army pouring over the border, of vast hordes of
Russian tanks in the streets of Eastern Ukrainian cities, reports of Russian multiple rocket launchers ready
to devastate huge areas and of Russian weapons being used to shoot down a transport aircraft have filled
By now they are probably heading into print as well.
The US are making official statements, NATO is warning that this escalation could lead to war, Britain wheeled
out its own mouthpiece to mutter disapprovingly.
Sabres are being rattled, those jingo’s are being jingled enthusiastically. Doom and gloom, it’s the end of the
THE RUSSIANS ARE COMING.
This of you above a certain age will remember the above from the cold war when the great fear that shaped
political policy was that uncountable Russian and Soviet tank divisions were lurking just across the German
border waiting to pounce at any instant and engulf Europe in death and destruction.
Now as more information is leaking out we can see what seems to be happening and I for one can see that yet
again we are being treated as idiots by those who seem hell bent on either starting a war with Russia or using
it as justification for yet more expansion of NATO.
Three, that’s THREE whole tanks, have been seen driving along a street in Eastern Ukraine. Three tanks
identified as T-64s have been seen along with Grad multiple rocket launchers in Eastern Ukraine and under the
control of the separatists.
Panic, chaos, madness.
The US and UK are up in arms, NATO is harrumphing like mad, talking heads are spouting nonsense as usual.
Three whole tanks following a truck full of soldiers with a Russian flag on it. Oh well that’s proof, no one but
the Russians would ever fly a Russian flag. Well apart from thousands of pro Russian separatists but ignore
them. Blame it on Putin and expect the stupid proles to believe it because politicians are saying it.
Let us take a look at this situation, break it down, ignore the warmongering and just look at the details so
that intelligent people can draw their own conclusions.
As of the breakup of the Soviet Union the Ukraine fielded Russian or Soviet built equipment, weapons and
tanks. They trained in the Russian way and used conscription to recruit soldiers.
Since then they have been a nominally independent nation but they have continued to use Russian Tactics,
weapons and equipment. They have bought new weapons and tanks from Russia and either sourced spares
and replacements internally or purchased them from other Eastern European or Russian sellers.
The Ukrainian army fielded Russian and home built tanks of several types, they have a fairly large tank
manufacturing capacity which they inherited from the Soviet era which led the development of the T-64
tank and has manufactured T-80 tanks for export to Pakistan among others.
The Ukrainian army fielded upwards of 1,000 T-64s with a number having been mothballed in long term
storage in Russian fashion. Several T-64s have been reported to have been lost in fighting against the
Separatists in the Donetsk and Lugansk regions. More will have been lost or left behind when their crews
Two Ukrainian mechanised divisions are based in the East of the country, we know a number of bases have
been taken over or surrendered to the separatists along with all equipment and vehicles.
The factory where those tanks were built is in Kharkiv which is in the north of Eastern Ukraine where the
separatists are. The facilities to maintain and overhaul those tanks are clustered around the heavily
industrialised Donetsk region. Storage facilities for mothballed tanks are here.
This place is very close to the Russian border in Eastern Ukraine. It is a storage and scrap area but it still
carries out maintenance, it is not just a junk yard. The photo's are several years old but the facility is still in
use and maintains a small staff for ongoing tank maintenance.
There are plenty of T-64s in the Ukraine for the separatists to grab. If they wanted to I’m sure they could get
a lot more in action.
But against the several thousand tanks the Kiev loyalists field the panic over three is grossly overblown.
The Ukraine inherited and continues to use Soviet and Russian style artillery systems. This includes guns,
mortars and rockets. This includes the Grad multiple rocket launcher of which the Ukrainian army has
several hundred with its mechanised divisions and artillery regiments.
Russian military organisation puts anti aircraft weapons such as small calibre rapid fire or light missile based
units in with regiments and divisions. There are literally thousands of dedicated anti aircraft machine guns
in the Ukrainian armed forces, many of these in the east of the nation. Along with ground to air missiles they
were either abandoned or captured when the bases were overrun during the initial rebellion against Kiev rule.
These are not something the Russians need to have supplied, this is all equipment that the Ukrainian armed
forces use and which are all over the country.
It must be Russians driving them or the Russians trained the tank crew.
Hello, real world calling the politicians and other idiots who think we are stupid.
Up until 2013 The Ukraine used Conscription to maintain the numbers of its armed forces, young men of
military age were forced by Law to serve several years in the armed forces. To do this they were trained,
basic training, weapons training, tactics. How to drive army vehicles such as lorries, armoured personnel
carriers AND tanks. How to fire heavy weapons such as rockets, anti tank weapons, artillery and heavy guns
and more besides.
This means that there are hundreds of thousands of people under the age of forty who have served in the
Ukrainian army because they were made to. They were taught to use weapons by the Ukrainian army. They
stand and act like soldiers because for several years they were soldiers.
It must be Russians or Russian trained drivers in those tanks. Well what about the many thousands of trained
tank crew who are ex conscripts or ex soldiers. The separatists could walk down a street and ask for trained
tank drivers and find a few. Three whole tanks, given the number of separatists they could probably crew
three hundred tanks.
So reports that it must be the Russians because no one else can drive tanks, utter nonsense and yet another
attempt to fool the public by misrepresenting facts and treating them as idiots.
The Ukraine uses and maintains its entire armed forces using Russian equipment and Russian methods. They
use Russian tactics and until last year used Russian style conscription.
In the east of the country military bases were abandoned as pro Kiev units fled or deserted leaving their
equipment and vehicles behind.
But all we hear is Russian troops and Russian tanks.
The separatists have been driving around in captured APCs since the beginning, western news noticed at
one point but haven't mentioned it since.
Prior to the all out assault ordered by the new PM in his quest for a 'Peaceful Resolution' to the problem
the separatists had no need for tanks. Now they do and may be bringing them out ready for use
against Kiev loyalist ground forces.
There is a worrying level of deliberate agitation here coming from the West. Putin is just sitting there doing
not much to help or hinder, yes Russian citizens are crossing the border to fight, talk to UKplc about how
many British Muslims are fighting in Syria or Iraq.
But at every stage it is Russia's fault, Putin's fault. Sanctions, finger pointing. All trying to make the situation
Not one western leader has raised the issue of the Kiev loyalists bombing and mortaring civilian areas,
compare the raving and frothing western response to Assad attacking his enemy who are in urban areas
with civilians living there to the utter silence we here when the Kiev air force bombs a town or city held by
Deliberate effort, very extensive, Blame Russia, prepare the sheep for war by making it look like a defensive
THE RUSSIANS ARE COMING.
Haven't hear that one since the cold war, US reinforcing NATO, spending more on European Defence, agitating
for NATO nations to increase defence spending.
Throw more petrol on that fire team USA, what’s the worst that could happen.